In exclusive interview, Nancy Pelosi shares bullish outlook for House | The Excerpt

On the Monday, December 15 2025, episode of The Excerpt podcast: In 2007, Nancy Pelosi became the first woman to hold the position of Speaker of the House. Now after nearly four decades of service, Nancy Pelosi, Democratic representative of California, has announced she will be stepping down in January 2027. What will her legacy be?

Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

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Susan Page:

In 2007, she became the first woman to hold the position of Speaker of the House. She led Democrats in the House for two decades and was crucial in passing the signature legislation of Obamacare. Hello and welcome to USA TODAY's The Excerpt. I'm Susan Page, USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief. Today is Monday, December 15th, 2025.

Now, after nearly four decades of service, Nancy Pelosi, Democratic representative of California, has announced she will be stepping down in January 2027. What will her legacy be? Speaker Pelosi, thank you so much for joining us.

Nancy Pelosi:

My pleasure. Thank you.

Susan Page:

You were just mentioning your grandchildren at Thanksgiving. Were your grandchildren surprised by your decision not to seek another term?

Nancy Pelosi:

I don't think they saw me as a speaker, I think they saw me as a grandmother, and I'm not giving up that. No, I don't know whether they were surprised. It really didn't come up. We don't really talk about my career when we're there for Thanksgiving.

Susan Page:

How about your husband, was he surprised?

Nancy Pelosi:

No, I don't think so. I mean, I basically said last year that I would run one more time in order to win the election for the Democrats. In order to be a factor in an election, it's easier to do so legally, with all the rules that govern as a member of congress. And so this is my mission. And I told people then, they said, "You are setting out to win? Are you going to win?" I said, "I'll let you know in one year." And one year from then, now, yes, we are going to win. It's absolute.

Susan Page:

We were all so sorry by the attack on your husband. How is he doing?

Nancy Pelosi:

He's doing okay. I think getting hit on the head is something that is... Although, it's all reconstruction, the brain, the whole thing is traumatic, and as well as physical. However, it stays with you. You get dizzy and you can fall, you break something. So it has ramifications beyond the incident. But he's lovely. I feel terrible because they're looking for me, they get him. He pays the physical price. Our children pay it traumatic. Our children and grandchildren, a traumatic effect. But he's lovely and good.

Susan Page:

Well, that's good to hear. Was this a hard decision to make?

Nancy Pelosi:

No, it wasn't hard at all. I don't know why people even think it was. No, it was time. I mean, I've been ready for a while, too. My life does not depend on my being in congress. And I was hoping Hillary would win. Was really shocked when she didn't. And then decided that we had to come back and win, which we did in '18, winning 40 seats, 31 of them in Trump districts. And now we have to win again and we will.

Susan Page:

But you stuck around because Donald Trump was going to become president and you've certainly played a big role in his first term in regaining the House. And I know that you're not a person given to regrets, but I wonder if you regret leaving this official job in Washington at a time President Trump is still in power in The White House.

Nancy Pelosi:

No, because I have, shall we say, no power right now, nor would I... I'll have less when I'm not in congress, but that doesn't mean I'm without influence. And there are many people outside the congress, including I will be one in a year, who can be making the fight. And I have no regrets about that. And no, I don't regrets because we have great people. And our leadership in the ranks of the Democratic Party in the House, I'm so proud of them. They're going to do a great job. Bring a new, fresh perspective.

Susan Page:

You think Democrats will win the House back in the midterms?

Nancy Pelosi:

I don't think they're going to win, I know that Democrats are going to win. It is absolutely so. We only need three seats for Hakeem to be speaker. I want more like 30. Somewhere in between or maybe beyond that. We will win the House.

Susan Page:

One more thing, touching on the 2024 election. You played a key role in encouraging President Biden to think about withdrawing as the nominee. I know that was tough. Have you and President Biden spoken since then?

Nancy Pelosi:

No, but I want to just recharacterize what you said. My conversations with the president were more about, let's make sure we're understanding what the polls say and there's certain attitudes that the public have that have they been taken into consideration. If they had sat down with more pollsters, it might have come to a place where we said, "This is it. The president should go." But they just decided that their polls were right and that was that. So I didn't go in there to say to the president, "You shouldn't run." I said, "We've got to compare polls, because we have different numbers."

Susan Page:

You and President Biden have been friends for so many years. Is it disappointing to you that you haven't spoken?

Nancy Pelosi:

Well, I'm saddened by it because I love him and respect him, but I respect his decision in that regard. He did make a lovely statement when I announced my future plans, and I'm grateful to him for that. It was very lovely, yeah.

Susan Page:

Just talking about President Trump, not about his ideology, which of course you disagree with in many ways, but in terms of his health, his cognition, his vigor, do you have concerns about that or not?

Nancy Pelosi:

I have concerns about it, but it isn't about his ideology, it's about his lack of success. We have an administration that is corrupt, incoherent, chaotic, cruel, young. So if you're talking about policy, that's one thing. If you're talking about what is this guy doing for the American people, it's just ain't there, except giving tax cuts to the rest of people in America while he cuts millions of people out of Medicaid, while he cuts half a trillion dollars out of Medicare, while he says he can't afford... appeals to the Supreme Court to not make him feed the children in the SNAP Act during the shutdown, so that he could have more money to give tax cuts to the richest people in America. I think that's sick.

Susan Page:

I wonder, you're confident Democrats will regain the House in the midterms, should Democrats think about impeaching President Trump if they do?

Nancy Pelosi:

The person most responsible for impeaching President Trump when I was speaker was President Trump. He gave us no choice. He crossed the line in his telephone call with President Zelensky as one manifestation of his disrespect for the constitution, his jeopardizing the sanctity of our own elections in our country and the rest. And then of course, January 6th. He can try to change the narrative all he wants, but we will be there to make sure the public knows the truth about January 6th. Was an insurrection incited by the President of the United States. Then he goes and pardons people who are beating up cops, thinking he's pro safety. Beating up cops and then now... Look at this, freeing a drug dealer who was president of Honduras, responsible for participating in 400 tons of drugs coming into the United States and saying, "We're going to jam them up in the noses of the gringos." And the president pardons him. And then he's bombing ships that says they have drugs coming into the country. There's something wrong with this picture.

Now, okay, let me just say this, that's that. I'm here on the positive side to make sure great people, values-based, honoring the vision of our founders, especially in the year of our anniversary of our country, honoring the vision of our founders, the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform and the dreams and aspirations of our children. I'm really not here to talk about the incoherence, the cruelty, the corruption of the current President of the United States.

Susan Page:

But just to make sure I understand you, this should not be the agenda of Democrats for this last years.

Nancy Pelosi:

No. I mean, let's see if he crosses the border again. But that's not an incidental thing you say, "We're going to do that." No, there has to be cause. There has to be reason. We had review. This was a very serious, historic thing. And our founders knew that there could be a rogue president, and that's why they put impeachment in the constitution. They didn't know there'd be a rogue president at the same time a rogue senate that didn't have the courage to do the right thing. It was bipartisan in the senate, but it wasn't enough.

Susan Page:

You'd mentioned that you won't have the power that you've had in the past when you're out of congress, but you will have influence. Tell me what you envision yourself doing after you're out of congress.

Nancy Pelosi:

Well, there are many options. It's a funny thing, because people say that to me and they say, "Well, what are you going to do next," and how about would you consider this or that? And I said, "I don't have to do... I'm old, I don't have to do anything else." But I have the energy. I think it's from being Italian. I think it's from eating a lot of dark chocolate. Whatever it is, I don't ever feel any less energetic than I ever have. But it's about the children and it's about our country. I mean, I grew up in a very patriotic family in little Italy in Baltimore. We were devout Catholics. We were proud of our Italian American heritage. We were fiercely patriotic. And in our case, staunchly Democratic.

Susan Page:

You see yourself raising money, giving advice.

Nancy Pelosi:

Yeah, all that. Well, advice that people wanted. But basically they have to be themselves. And the best advice I ever got when I was running for office, especially... well, the first time was when I ran for congress, was, "Just be yourself, the authentic you." That is what matters to people, the sincerity, the integrity of it all.

Susan Page:

Is there anything you couldn't do in congress, that you can do when you're out of congress that you're looking forward to doing?

Nancy Pelosi:

One thing that I say from time to time, is being in congress for all these years, you really don't have as much time as you would like to be a friend. Your friends have ups and downs and this or that, and you really can't be there for them because you have to be there for the vote.

Susan Page:

Your proudest achievement?

Nancy Pelosi:

Affordable Care Act. There's absolutely no question. For a hundred years, presidents had tried, Democratic presidents, it was Republican, too. Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman got close with Medicare, LBJ, so fabulous Medicare and Medicaid, the Clintons, everybody tried, but Barack Obama came with the intention to do this and we have plans for it. We've always been... When I came to congress, that was my issue, healthcare. And of course relating to HIV and AIDS at that time, but the larger issue as well. So when he was president, it gave us the opportunity. And he knew it chapter and verse. But when it's accomplished, it's really an accomplishment. And he called and said, "When you pass the bill, I'm happier tonight than I was when I was elected President of the United States." And I said, "Well, Mr. President, I don't agree. I'm happy tonight, you can be sure, but if you had not been elected President of the United States, we would not have this victory tonight."

Susan Page:

So that's your proudest achievement. What's been your biggest disappointment?

Nancy Pelosi:

My disappointment, always have and I'll never give up on it, is guns. A four letter word, guns. Guns. That children would be dying in a classroom that families... Just the saddest thing. But it's about two things, that politicians should think that their political survival is more important than the survival of children and families in our country. And that the gun industry, I'm not talking about lobbyists here, I'm talking about the gun industry with endless, big money, just deciding that they are going to have it their way at the cost of lives in our country so they can make a profit. And it's a global issue, too. I mean, you understand that guns are very a border issue as well. But they don't care. They just care about making money. So it's money and power and kids pay the price and families pay the price.

Susan Page:

When you arrived, there were 12 Democrats, Democratic women in congress, now there are 96.

Nancy Pelosi:

96.

Susan Page:

Quite the increase. Democrats have nominated two women for president and they both lost to Donald Trump. What's the lesson of that experience? And do you think a woman will be elected president in your lifetime?

Nancy Pelosi:

I certainly hope so. How I think about it is I always thought that a woman would be President of the United States long before a woman would be Speaker of the House. This place is just so, it's not a glass ceiling, it's a marble ceiling. So I thought certainly the American people are far ahead of the congress in terms of their acceptance or their enthusiasm for a woman to be President of the United States.

As it turns out, I became speaker because one thing was we decided we're going to have more women in congress, and that gave us more members of congress, and therefore we had the majority. I helped create that. I became speaker. But I would never have thought that. I would have thought outside there's more interest in it. There's so much enthusiasm. As I said, I think Hillary Clinton was the best qualified person. And I think that Kamala Harris did a great job. There's so much enthusiasm that she engendered in her campaigns. But I think people are getting more ready for it. I think it's probably, maybe, maybe not in my lifetime, but within this next generation, there'll be a woman. Yeah.

Susan Page:

I wonder what you think about the direction of the Democratic Party that you've led for so long. Is mayor like Mamdani the new face, do you think, of the Democratic Party?

Nancy Pelosi:

I don't think any mayor is the new face. I mean, we have a great mayor in San Francisco, and he's wonderful and he's doing a great job. I wish the mayor success. I want mayors to succeed, coming from the mayor's family where I lived my whole life, when my father was mayor and my brother was mayor. But I don't think you define who the face of the party is, that has to emerge from the party. And here's the thing, and count on this, in '05 we said in the first year, the president's numbers, President Bush was 58% in January, 38% in September, because he gave us a gift, he was going to privatize social security. He says, "Nancy, I was only partially privatizing." And I said, "Yes, that's good enough for me." Take his numbers down.

Trump, the next time in September, we went out there 10,000 events on the Affordable Care Act and what it meant to people. I'm not talking about the provisions or the politics, I'm talking about, "My wife had breast cancer, and this is what the bill meant to me, the law meant to me." "My father had a stroke." "My baby came home from the hospital with a heart condition." That we won 40 seats, 31 of them in Trump districts.

So a year in advance is where you see what that is. Okay, so we knew in '06, when we won, that we were going to win The White House. We knew in '18, when we won, we knew we were going to win The White House in '20. And now we know when we win the House, next year is our path to The White House. And we have a big bench, some women on it. Maybe more women will join that bench. And we have a Democratic congress to talk about the issues in a way that the press will cover. The press doesn't really cover so much in the House, Democrats in the House, because we don't have power. We have power, it's a different story. We won't be able to get his signature on things maybe, but we'll be able to slow down the terror that he is inflicting on the country.

Susan Page:

You talked about the fundamental concerns you have about President Trump and his leadership. Do you think that democracy is in peril now?

Nancy Pelosi:

Yeah, of course it is. What is democracy? Democracy is free and fair elections. I rest my case on him. It's an independent judiciary. Okay? It's due process. Right? It's freedom of the press. All of those factors are a part of a democracy. I think freedom of the press is the biggest defender of democracy. And what did he do? He did what autocrats do, try to diminish the power of the press, the influence of the press. That's a vicious thing to do. But I don't think you save it by having that conversation. That was what the conversation was before. You save the constitution of the United States, you save our democracy. You celebrate our 250th anniversary at the kitchen table. What are the issues that matter to people in their lives? The health, education, the economic security of their families, that's what saves the democracy. When people vote, see their interests served by one party or another.

Susan Page:

Speaker Pelosi, thank you so much for joining us.

Nancy Pelosi:

You're welcome. My pleasure.

Susan Page:

Thanks to our senior producer, Kaely Monahan for her production assistance. Our executive producer is Laura Beatty. Let us know what you think of this episode by sending a note to [email protected]. Thanks for listening. I'm Susan Page, USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief. We'll be back tomorrow morning with another episode of USA TODAY's The Excerpt.